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Tuesday, March 28, 2006

Outrage over Upgrading Issues

i'm reproducing the article from Littlespeck.com here regarding
the Upgrading carrots the ruling party dangle every Ge.


Goh Chok Tong Stirring it big

Senior minister's warning that Singaporeans who elect opposition will lose out on
state subsidies for estate upgrading has raised a large outcry among the Internet community.
Mar 27, 2006

Mr. Goh also told voters of two opposition wards - Hougang and Potong Pasir -
that if the PAP candidates win, the party whip may be lifted for them in Parliament.

Online response, in volume and depth of feeling, has been very intense. Following are excerpts, rather
one-sided only because there were hardly any views supporting Mr. Goh at this compilation..


soc.culture.singapore

drshor
Mr. Chiam See Tong was quite clear about the "very unethical disbursement of public funds.
Town councils run by the PAP have almost unlimited funds.Their main source of money is the
Ministry of National Development," of which a PAP MP is senior parliamentary secretary.
Chiam has to make do with the maintenance rates collected from residents and the $280,000
that each town council receives annually from the government. "The world is divided between those who support the PAP and those who don't," said Chiam. "If you don't vote for the PAP, you don't get the facilities. These facilities are provided by public funds, yet the government is using public funds to gain votes." And how did Goh Chok Tong respond to that? "You can argue that the money belongs to the people, but you still have to queue up to receive it."

Talk Cock
He is playing with tax-payer monies. May be he should consider Hougang's
and Potong Pasir's residents be exempted from paying GST?

lobert
Nobody is taking him seriously any more.

Tulang
Are we in a mafia election?


Sammyboy

Goh Meng Seng (Workers Party)
Heard that one stall holder of Hougang Market openly rejected the idea of upgrading the Hougang market outright during the dialogue session with Goh CT. He cited the reason that with an upgraded market, rental will increase and he will ill afford that. Goh CT then says that after upgrading the market, more people will come to Hougang market. The priority right now is not about upgrading but rather, how to keep cost of livnig low! Upgrading is contrary to this primary objective of keeping cost of living lower! Dear SM Goh, What we are looking for is LOWER Cost of Living and not Upgrading!


Kelonging
Yes. We would want cheaper food, lower education cost, medical fees and cheaper houses and not extravagent upgrading which we have to bear the costs anyway. If these unnecessary costs passed on to the neccessities then it will be good.


Devil's Advocate
"If the food is nice and cheap.. customer sure come." My friend brought me to Johor Baru, there no upgrading. But I saw many many people. Food is cheap cos rental is cheap. But food not only cheap but also very nice so, many many people go there even place is ulu ulu and no upgrading some more.


loudhailer
I'm confused, why do some people talk about upgrading as a FREE gift, when it is a PAID gift?

SeanT7
PAP is trying to turn people's attention from National issues to local issues.

jacys
It is the goverment's responsiblity to provide clean and properr eating and rading enviroment. it is the goverment's responsiblity to help local business grow. However, if the goverment should not comment on matters they cannot be responsible of or able to predict no matter how good the matter turn out to be. A newer and cleaner market, a upgraded one, might attract more visitor in the short term, but that does not garuntee more sales in more short or even long term. Unless the goverment can garantee that an upgraded market will result in an increase a revenue for the stall holders, they have no right to increase rental and collect profit from any stall holders when the stall holders themselves do not see any increase in their own earnings.

Rover2sg
Let GCT talk himself from losing the grass support. The point is that "upgrading is using the public money" and should be used for the common good based on needs and not on political affiliation. The PAP can neither use it as a carrot to gain votes nor use it to blackmail the people into not voting for the opposition parties. All public funds should be channel through the legitimate elected Members of Parliament and not through PAP advisors in opposition wards. Chiam and Low should seek legal (not Leegal) advice on whether the practice is against the constitution and common law. Why are they silent on these unfair practices?

Zenra2003
They can make threats but that can trigger a backlash. Do remeber that PAP is not
returned as a majority on polling day since more than half the seats will be contested.
They can try to threaten at their own peril.

dual22
No harm done. Come election day, all is forgotten due to their fear and
PAP gets their mandate. Coffee shop grouses only.

tohgoh
In fact I'm saying this for all the opposition. Don't fall into such petty quarrel traps
setup by them. Focus on what and how you can better people livelihoods, national interest
and stay clean, at the same time how to move Singapore forward. That's the key in defeating them.

SUREBET500
The main point remains that Hougang residents pay tax and serve NS like everyone else. How can the govt discriminate against Hougang and deprive them of services paid for by tax monies? GCT might as well threaten the Hougang residents that the govt will stop maintaining the roads in Hougang and withdraw all SCDF services from them if they don't vote PAP! What a disgraceful freaking tyrant!

ardeedee1
Looks like GCT is not very wise in the ways of the Parliament. The whip cannot be waived or raised for individual members of Parliament on a suka suka ('as you like') basis. The whip is always on the PAP MPs but is lifted only on very few occassions and this is dependent on the issue at hand beingof universal Sinbgaporeans apeal such as say National Service. Otherwise the whip remains and when in force all MPs must conform or be disciplined by having to resign etc. This proposal to lift the whip only for the two candidates of Houqang and Potong Pasir is a proposal that can never hold true..

urbanturban
You think he does not know. This is election talk.
A compliant media is one that fails to 'check' him on that.

RainMan898
I couldn't believe my ears. is he serious? One does not know whether to laugh or cry. Actually I am doing both, laughing to tears. However this does point to a few things: They know people want an opposition. They does see the oppostion as a growing threat. They are not as relaxed they pretend.

SneeringTree
It's been more than 24 hours since I read about what GCT says and I am still completely floored and flabbergasted by the insanity of it all. Seriously, for him to even suggest this speaks volumes aabout his respect for the voters and the intergrity of our elections.

2lanU
I believe the core issue for this election should not be on the upgrading. Instead it should be on the livelihood of common people. What the use of upgrading when most are starving and cannot pay for electric and water bill? Upgrading can be done when everyone can afford later. LHL really play his cards wrong. Many are disinterest with upgrading but more on bread and butter issue. See those oldies picking can drinks bottle and carton boxes, he think they fancy upgrade more than livelihood? I suspect he is trying to divert attention from this which he has no idea how to solve.

Einfield
Using State fund to advance own political goal should be mada a crime against the nation,
People should stand up and reject all upgrading unless all Singaporean are treated equal,
opposition ward or not. CST said he have no access to the funds form Ministry of National
Development, that is something that must be corrected.

Rover2sg
The point is that "upgrading is using the public money" and should be used for the common good based on needs and not on political affiliation. The PAP can neither use it as a carrot to gain votes nor use it to blackmail the people into not voting for the opposition parties. All public funds should be channel through the legitimate elected Members of Parliament and not through PAP advisors in opposition wards. Public institutions should also work through the elected representive and not through a particular political party. Chiam and Low should seek legal advice on whether the practice is against the constitution and common law. Why are they silent on these unfair practices?

dogfight72
Why is the ruling party always uses UPGRADING as the bait for residents to vote them in the past few GEs. Is there nothing but just upgrading that they are concern for the vote winning? What about job security, cost of living, medical cost etc ... these are much important and essential than upgrading issue!!

2lanU
The flat is the only asset its people held. All thanks to the stupid policy of buying a bigger flat, sell it when one is ready to retire by dun know which minister. Now the flat price plummeted and got older. No way the value can return for ugly flat even if the location is good. So the govt will upgrade with heavy subsidy after all these years of sucking its people. But they are smart to tag something into the deal, which is vote them in first. I wonder if we can vote all of them out and continue with the upgrade as well?


SGforums

niceguy_123
I just can't understand why treating fellow singaporeans double standards?? Didn't the residents in Hougang and PP pay taxes, GST, COEs, housing loans...etc just like the rest of the singaporeans.. it just being very unethical using such remarks to "blackmail" the citizens there... I feel even they choose other people as MPs, they should be receiving the same treatment as a singaporean citizen.

dragg
Politics is dirty. Just this comment is enough for them to lose, AGAIN!!!

dcx
The funny thing is that Sinaporeans all do the Singapore pledge....
We, the citizens of Singapore
Pledge ourselves as one united people
Regardless of race, language or religion
To build a democratic society
Based on justice and equality
So as to achieve happiness, prosperity & progress for our nation
-
Well....We're one united people, so, everyone should have his fair share of upgrades etc...
All are carrying the pink IC and Singaporeans...so, why the difference...but then....

Inzaghi
After upgrade, they will raise lots of charges, 'cos they will say need to maintain the standards etc..so end up paying much more..

niceguy123
Yah .. sounded hipocrite...Got democracy? You vote opposition then get blackmailed for no upgrading..even you are a fellow singaporean..I staying in a PAP constituency, but just can't help getting furious when I heard Lau Goh said that...

t_a_s
Dont worry they go see GCT only, but they still vote Chiam See Tong. CST cannot afford to lose, he is the icon for democracy. If PAP wins, then next time there will be no more Potong Pasir, it will merge with neighbour GRC. They use upgrading as a threat, I feel it is unfair. All blocks regardless where is the ward shall be given upgrading according to the age of the flats. The reason why I don't like PAP is they control too much our lives.

LazerLordz
We need more people to reject this. It's so blatant, how a corporate entity's plans for upgrading can be tied into the Ruling Party. Just reject the whole f--king idea man..in the end, that HDB flat is not yours.

LinYu
If people give in to this, it will be a sad day for Singapore. It is downright low in characters that our Ministers had to resort to this to win votes.

oxford mushroom
It is still a political issue cos' it does work...Your property is your most valuable asset and money always counts in Singapore. Would anyone wish to buy a resale flat from from Potong Pasir unless the selling price is way below the market value? Without upgrading, your investment will only depreciate in value.. The government's policy is not fair but why should residents in Potong Pasir continue to suffer for choosing the Opposition? Those who want to keep Opposition MPs in Parliament should help defray the costs of upgrading for flats in Opposition wards.

Ponders
yah... but in the first place... HDB is now a corporatised entity where their reason for being is based on profits and losses. Politics shouldn't influence their upgrading plans.

LazerLordz
In the first place, the PAP should be banned from dealing in the corporate plans of HDB.
Face it, no ombudsman, and no ombudsman with a big stick.

boyish love
This is an open threat man! I hope the opposition issue statment tomorrow.

leddy
In today's competition, people are always trying to gain an unfair advantage, be it in studies,
work, sports or politics... it's really sad... I just hope people give their vote to the
leaders they believe in and not look at the material sides of things...

abao
In the first place, they shouldn't even mix grassroots organisations, political parties and governmental agencies together. Now, in my opinion, the PAP has trouble differenciating the differences in the above as they have been doing the job since independence (actually, since M'sia was formed...).

Atobe
This is characteristic Singapore Politics conducted by Incumbent Politicians with a Third World mentality, trying hard to up-grade the HDB environment into a sham image of a First World to be lived by Singaporeans, who are governed by Third World legislators. With the constant insecurity that is typical of Third World Politicians, can we not expect that they will need to control and manipulate every facet of government structure, so as to gain the upper hand for themeselves in any political situation.

macjoe
Pork Barrel Politics in play?

charlize
I am sure even some PAP members are against using this as an election tactic but what to do? Have to toe the party line.

LazerLordz
Let it collapse. To resort to such tricks..is very unbecoming.

casefan
HDB upgrading has become a political issue because we indirectly approved it with
our votes. So, what is there to complain about; we have only ourselves to blame.


Hardwarezone

mppp
The most horrible part is they never feel shameful by saying such crap year after year...

oppugn
They make it seem like we owe them or something. bloody authoritarian regime...

Soulhacker
I am really disgusted that people are actually cheering and applauding at the end of that awful and pretentious speech. I don’t see how he is sincerely being ‘caring’ for the welfare of the residents there for making such a threat. Can’t they see through the hypocrisies in this? It is like unofficially telling people that anyone who voted for opp should be treated as 2nd or 3rd class citizens. I don’t care how truth this is as a pre-election propaganda, as someone with dignity I am finding it hard to swallow. And propaganda only works for the fool, this kind of thing only further convinced me that why we should need to vote for more opposition members than having more MIW.

ratppl
My thought is that irregardless whether that town belong to opposition or not, when come to upgrading of lift or flat and when is really needed, govn should put aside of the different and serve the ppl when is in need. It should not use it as a weapon or candy or any mean to win back the vote. Talk about income tax, everyone pay the tax irregardless whether he is in opp ward or pap ward, why should the opp ward not able to get the 'money' to upgrade those needed flat? But..I was disappointed, 'cos majority of S'porean are short sighted, they only noe what is good in front of them but they did nt noe that behind them..there are some other thing going on.
Wake up S'porean!! It time for you to see a bigger picture..get out from the smoke.

BeiJiFeng
Every election, people complain. Every election, MIW win almost every damned thing.
So whats happening?
People shouldn't fear the government. The govt should fear the people.

xorus
I find it amusing that people actually feel worked up over such rhetoric. Everyone knows it's just for show. As if the opposition politicans will be saints if they were in the PAP's position. If I vote for the opposition, it won't be because I think Chiam or Low are saintly persons (whether that's true or not). It will be becoz i think Singapore needs an opposition to check the PAP. If I don't think so, then there is nothing wrong with voting for PAP. What dignity? Ridiculous.. why should I identify myself personally with either of the sides?


Channelnewsasia Forum

freethinker
It is just isnt right to use public funds for their own party's interests in voting.

niefeng
I believe these are just some of the gimmicks that they will associate to the election. Sad to say, this is Singapore.

Teabag
SM Goh over the news. He's 'concern' that residents of potong pasir will missed out on the upgrading. And, he said that with a straight face. My first reaction? Nauseating.

SQ3169
I began to wonder what is the role of HDB in Singapore. Does HDB functions as a Singapore Government Organisation or PAP Organisation? What exactly is the mission of HDB?
Even though the chairman of HDB is from PAP, it should still plan and develop all areas in
Singapore, regardless constituency. To plan and develop, ensuring vibrant community of PAP wards is not the mission of HDB. If HDB is not going to upgrade PAP opposition wards, does it mean that residents from these wards no longer have to pay car park fees or miscellaneous fees to HDB? The whole deal, somehow, sounds like an extortion. Isn't it?

Evil Nut
I agreed with what most of you have said.
I hate the idea of PAP using Tools that are surpose to be for "Public",
as their own Election Tools.
1 - This Is Unfair To The Oppersitions! (sic)
2 - These Should Belong To The Public At Large, Not Their Personal Items!
3 - Tax Payers Pay Taxes To Them, Thus We Should Be Treater Fairly!
4 - This Issue Reflected How Ignorance Most Singaporeans Are How Are We Going
To Be First Class In Such Cases?

AG
Yes.. it is like dangling an ice cream or a durian to a group of deprived kids:
Listen or else you don't get to eat them! what an insult!

BZBody
Can you really blame the PAP government when the people vote because of HDB upgrade?
In the last few elections, PAP has always used the HDB Upgrade as 'Carrot & Stick' to get their votes. successfully. The more important question is:
Is Singaporean so devoid of Higher Aspiration that they vote according to what happen to their HDB? It has happened time and again in the past! The NKF saga is just an eye opener. If Singaporean keep ignoring the issues of Transparencies, Accountability and greater Civic Freedom, then who is to be blame for the state that they are in? Do Singaporeans even realised that their childrens are going to be totally lacking in civic consciousness, politically awkward and behave like society-nerd that cares only about the one or two thousands sq ft of HDB cement that they paid a lot for, but do not own and can be asked to leave anytime? Is this what being a Singaporean means?

quadro
What a let down!!










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